Friday, December 14, 2007

The VQ Oil Analysis & Oil Information Thread - StreetUnitForum.com

The VQ Oil Analysis & Oil Information Thread - StreetUnitForum.com

Infineum Comments on HTHS Limits and its Impact on Oil Drain Interval

How HTHS viscosity at 150C relates to Viscosity at 100C. One idea I have is rather than solely considering the TBN as an indication of when to change the oil, one should also consider what the HTHS viscosity is of their used oil and make sure that it is still above the manufaturer's or specification's min. requirement, like Porsche and the ACEA with a min. of 3.5 cSt.

Here is the basic summary of the PDF:

Both KV100 loss and HTHS loss after shear are related to one
another as well as to the SSI of the viscosity modifier, with an average 32.2% of the KV100 viscosity being the after shear HTHS viscosity.

R^2=0.941 for % HTHS vis loss vs. KV 100C loss for 5w30, 10w30, and 15w40, so the data correlates well.

KV100 Stay-in-grade min. of 9.3 cSt = after shear HTHS min 3.0
15w40 after shear HTHS of 3.7 cP min recommended, so KV100 min should be 11.47 cSt in UOA.

That would suggest that if the oil in a used oil analysis had 11.47 cSt Viscosity at 100C or less, that it is time to change the oil.

Mobil 1 0W-40

Mobil 1 0W-40

Thanks to the wonders of Google cache, we can see what the old API SL rated Mobil 1 0w40 was compared to it's new SM rated version, which shortly after the page was posted on BITOG, Mobil pulled it and replaced it with a new one.

http://www.mobil.com/Germany-German/Lubes/PDS/GLXXDEPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp

One thing of interest is that the new Mobil 1 0w40 no longer is VW 503.01 approved.

Mobil 1 0W-40

Mobil 1 0W-40

Thanks to the wonders of Google cache, we can see what the old API SL rated Mobil 1 0w40 was compared to it's new SM rated version, which shortly after the page was posted on BITOG, Mobil pulled it and replaced it with a new one.

http://www.mobil.com/Germany-German/Lubes/PDS/GLXXDEPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp

One thing of interest is that the new Mobil 1 0w40 no longer is VW 503.01 approved.

Mobil 1 0W-40 Current PDS - Bob Is The Oil Guy

Mobil 1 0W-40 Current PDS - Bob Is The Oil Guy

More on discrepencies with Mobil 1 0w40, reformulations, and its poor performance in high performance engines.

Automakers Prepare Next Engine Oil Specs

Big Changes Loom for European Market

This article discussing the upcoming ACEA E9 specification.

What I think is great is that the ACEA usually builds upon the emissions requirements but is typically much more stringent on wear, and the new E9 specification would call for a low ash oil but with low TBN - less detergency, less wear (because the anti-wear additives work better with less detergents around).

Just published in the SAE, the paper "Moden Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oils with Lower TBN Showing Excellent Performance is very promising, improving upon the percieved deficiences with the CJ-4 and SM standards now used. I've taken a few notes on this paper, for those interested.

Wednesday, December 12, 2007

Different versions of Mobil 1 0w40 Leads to More Questions

Mobil Canada

Mobil USA

If you compare the Specifications and Approvals, they are different, as well as the Typical Properties of the oils in question.

There is a thread on BITOG in regards to this discrepancy, as well as my earlier post to this blog, with regards to my concern about Mobil 1's Porsche Approval, since the bottle says Porsche Approval List 2002 and based on Porsche's approval process, manufacturers must recertify their oil every three years AND/OR when there is a formulation change, as Mobil did when changing from an API SL to an API SM oil.

Here is the BITOG link.

Sunday, December 9, 2007

UOA Used Oil Analysis and Oil Testing

UOA Used Oil Analysis and Oil Testing

We're now offering used oil analysis including TBN. Results will be emailed to you and will also be used to help generate a global database of results for the Porsche community to reference. We're charging a bit more than average, but we're also including the TBN analysis, which most labs charge an extra $10.

We also have GM EOS in stock, part number 88862586, which replaces the old GM part number 1052367.

Thursday, December 6, 2007

Why "NOT" to use moly based engine...... - Tundra Solutions Forum

Why "NOT" to use moly based engine...... - Tundra Solutions Forum: "Check out the OEM bulletin from Cummins. It is the Cummins Engine Oil Recommendations, Bulletin No. 3810340-02 . Its probably best if you stopped by a Cummins Dealer and purchased this bulletin- about $2 or $3. On page 7 it has a section on FRICTION MODIFIERS states: 'There is firm evidence that certain friction modifiers, molybdenum dithiophosphate for example, can in certain formulations result in cam follower pin failure at relatively low mileage'........ From years working with engine test programs to approve engine oil formulations for API licensing, we can tell you that NO engine oil containing Molybdenum additives has been certified by the full range of engine tests necessary to gain API approval. Molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases, any engine oil formula having 'moly' will also contain a Copper Deactivator which will protect bearings from the moly compounds. The only problem, the copper deactivator decomposes at relatively low temperatures and looses it's potency after a few thousand miles."

Bob Cousimano over at CMW Oil also is a firm believe that soluble moly products should not be used in automotive lubricants, just like PTFE (teflon) and many other oil additive products like Prolong, Slick 50, and countless others just plain don't work and should never be used in an engine.

Reliability of 996 Engines - RennTech.org Forums

Reliability of 996 Engines - RennTech.org Forums: "Jim Pasha has written an outstanding article in the October 2005 issue of Excellence Magazine."

You can download the article from the Renntech forums. Also, there is a good post on that thread, pointing out some of the major flaws with the 996/997.

Petroleum: Lubricant Additives: Antiwear & Extreme Pressure Additives

Petroleum: Lubricant Additives: Antiwear & Extreme Pressure Additives

PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ) - TDIClub Forums

PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ) - TDIClub Forums: "PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ) "

From the TDI Club forums. Covers UOA collection practices, lists labs that can test your oil, discusses the various VW oil standards, and lists various UOAs from engines running various approved (and non-approved) oils.

IMHO, the Porsche crowd needs to pick a handful of oils, and everyone needs to start doing UOA on a regular basis, and share those findings, like the Volkswagen TDI guys have. Quite a valuable resource to see how an oil performs across a "fleet" in all kinds of service - daily driver, weekend warrior, to full on race engines.

Oils explained from Drivers Technology, whats written on your oil bottle and what does it mean?.

Oils explained from Drivers Technology, whats written on your oil bottle and what does it mean?.

Although a bit out of date, alot of the common specification terminology is explained and the evolution of the API as well as the ACEA standards.

MRO Today - Friction: The good, the bad and the greasy

MRO Today - Friction: The good, the bad and the greasy

An excellent explaination of how friction affects lubrication.

Motor Oil

Motor Oil: "Motor Oil 101", by AE Haas, broken into 10 sub-sections. Although I don't agree with everything he states, there is a lot of pertainent information worth reading.

Method for reducing piston deposits - US Patent 5068044

Method for reducing piston deposits - US Patent 5068044

A very interesting and novel idea of using ZnO in the filter in lieu of metallic detergents in motor oil to maintain the cleanliness of the oil and a high TBN retention. As we all know, less detergents also means that the available AW additives can work better at reducing wear and even better yet, less of these AW additives end up being needed.

BryCoat - Dry Film Lubricant Coating

BryCoat - Dry Film Lubricant Coating

I'm a big believer in applying cutting edge coatings or surface treatments for wear reduction, longevity, or to make more HP. I've used coatings from Calico Coatings to PVD (plasma vapor disposition) nano-tech coatings Anatech Ltd's Casidum (also known as DLC - diamond like carbon), and they work. There is pioneering research being done using dry film lubricants like MoS2 and WS2 and media blasting parts with very fine media at very high velocities, physically bonding these friction reducing products at a molecular level with the substrates its being fired at. WPC has pioneered this process and we will be using it with great anticipation in the near future.

HTHS - Bob Is The Oil Guy

HTHS - Bob Is The Oil Guy: "A jump in HTHS by about +1.5 results in approximately 1/5 the wear. Now this relationship is not linear and flattens as one nears a 40+ weight oil."
...
"Summary: It was found that HTHS correlates better with wear values found in actual oil analysis and actual tear-down measurements than does measuring the oil film thickness in situ."

The HTHS (high temperature high shear) viscosity of a given oil is a very important consideration in my choosing a motor oil. Yes, Porsche has a minimum HTHS that is aligned with the levels required for an ACEA A3/B3 lubricant, but M1 0w40 just meets that specification. There are many 0w40 and 5w40 lubricants that have up to 25% higher HTHS #s.

The oils we've seen with some of the highest quoted HTHS viscosities have been Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50, Amsoil Harley V-Twin 20w50, and Brad Penn Racing 1 20w50, all with HTHS #s near or in excess of 6.0.

It is also worth mentioning that in one of the quoted SAE journals, that the zero wear intercept for HTHS viscosity was a HTHS of 13.7, so most definately there is improvement when going from 3.5 on up to even 6.0 IMHO.

Frequently Asked Questions - Products - CJ-4 Specification

Frequently Asked Questions - Products - CJ-4 Specification

Lubrizol is one of the leaders in oil additive technology, and this FAQ on the CJ-4 specification is excellent and addresses some of the common questions. It is great that some of the texts in the matrix evaluated both the use of ultra-low sulfur diesel AND non-ultra-low sulfur fuels, but it's worth noting that the new tests added for valvetrain wear and ring/liner and bearing wear are not done with the higher sulfur fuels.

Suggested SAE Technical Paper Series Readings

I've compiled links in my Google Notebook to various SAE Technical Paper Series published over the last 30 years, mostly on lubrication, but there are some intesting reads on piston/ring/liner interactions, as well as liner and piston metallurgy. Well worth the price of admission, most, if not all of the publications listed are in our personal library.

Energy Citations Database (ECD) - - Document #6545328

Effect of fuel and lubricant composition on engine deposit formation.

"The oxidatively stable synthetic oils minimized varnish but esters accumulated much more pentane-insolubles than polyalphaolefins or alkylbenzenes."

Pentane-insolubles in motor oils can ultimately contribute to increased wear connecting rod bearing wear, as documented in the SAE Technical Paper Series #810330. Engine Oil and Bearing Wear. Esters above refer to Group V synthetics, where polyalphaelefins (PAO), as group IV synthetics.

Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

Title pretty much sums this one up. The above link is to an excellent thread discussing current oil formulations and their impact on aircooled Porsches on the Pelican Parts forums.

Wednesday, December 5, 2007

Porsche Reduces Drain Interval to 12,000 mi / 1 Year



The above UOA posted on the Renntech.org forums is a good example why Porsche needed to reduce the drain interval from the 2 year or 24,000 mi that they were recommending. Given that Mobil 1 0w40, or most if not all ACEA A3/B3 oils have a starting TBN of 10.0, and now the TBN measured about half, the above owner should be considering changing their oil after 8,500 mi. This is using the rule of thumb that your drain interval should be determined by evaluating the TBN retention and changing when you are at 50% of the starting level. 8,500 mi is still some 3,500 mi less than Porsche's new, reduced 12,000 mi interval.

That is why it is so important to do oil testing on a regular basis, especially with longer drain intervals. I personally use Staveley Services to do my testing. In fact, I have two UOAs from my '91 C4 Cab posted over on my other blog about my 911.

If you would like to share your UOAs, please email me!